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hhill · Joined: 14 Feb 2011 Posts: 7

I've been trying to avoid being the first one to post, as I am unable to think of a particularly stimulating point to raise, however, it is nearly nine at night and I must soon be off to bed so I will endure. I think one valuable notion we should explore is the fact that the Bushido, strong-man, militaristic ideology which spread through Japan was not limited to the archipelago. The fascist impulse, the exhaustion with the bureaucracy and inefficiency of democracy was widespread in the post World War one world. Germany of course squelched its democracy in favor a glorious leader, as did Italy, and stirrings to enact marshal law were significant, though not truly a threat, in the united states. In this I believe one can understand Japan's return to the shogun-style system of militarism of rabid dedication to one's leader that reemergence in Japan as less of an inevitable collapse of a poorly constructed constitutional monarchy and comprehend the emergence of a fascistic, militaristic state as having more to due with the general feeling of democracies failure which existed in the global zietgeist during the early years of the twentieth century.

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dmchenry · Joined: 16 Feb 2011 Posts: 6

i'm not really sure if i totally understand what hardy was saying...

i think that the return to a more shogun-istic government was important in strengthening Japan as a country so that they would be as powerful as they were when overtaking China. To put it as hardy said, "the rabid dedication" to the leader seems to have overtaken the minds of the Japanese.

obviously there were some negative sides to this extreme loyalty, like not being able to always win every battle for the emperor. when their "hopes for an easy conquest" (122) were shattered at Nanking many of the soldiers "found an outlet for their emotions in brutal attacks on the civilians remaining in the city." (122) thousands of Chinese were killed and the news shocked the rest of the world.

mhamilton2012 · Joined: 14 Feb 2011 Posts: 9

It was an intelligent choice to keep the Emperor around as a figurehead and not much more. He was there to motivate the subjects of japan while the shogun "provided strong, stable government" pg 111

The author also refers to Japan as "her" when Japan is a fatherland

Anya · Joined: 14 Feb 2011 Posts: 7

I actually saw Japan shifting loyalty away from the government and more towards supporting the ideas of individuals in Japanese society. The Japanese were actually demanding the that the government take action to improve the silk farming crisis that occurred after the great depression, but had no idea how a democratic society could possibly work, and therefore didn't help the situation at hand. The system of governing also began to crumble as the next generation of politicians battled against the older politicians in expansion decisions.

This was a time for quick decisions and rapid expansion, naturally the militaristic nationalist structure that the Japanese enforced would undergo some forceful changes.

What are everyone else's thoughts on the loyalty between government, officials, and citizens during the Showa Restoration? Where was Japan's new system of governing headed?

mkim · Joined: 14 Feb 2011 Posts: 14

Yes, I agree that there were some negatives sides to the extreme loyalty and patriotism. I wanted to add that the "news of the atrocities was kept out of the papers in Japan" (122?229?) from Japan's "Rape of Nanking". The control over media existed and stimulated the patriotic ideas in the Japanese people, especially in the young minds.

Japan's formerly "stable government", under corruption, lost its power, and the "military men could act on their own and get away with it" (115). However through Japan's brutal military performances out in Manchuria and China seem to be "less admirable"(115) to the world.

Isaac T · Joined: 14 Feb 2011 Posts: 10

In response to Anya's questions, i think that the japanese population was led blindly through this time. In the reading, it said that when atrocities were committed in china, it was kept out of the papers in japan. I believe that the japanese people wanted to see results from this reformation, and because it wasnt happening as quickly as they thought, or in the right ways, they put their trust in the military leaders. This trust was founded on misinformation and little knowledge of what was really happening. I think that one of the reasons that the military thought they could act on their own accord was because they saw the government as being too slow with their actions. This might go back to the Bushido, where i think there was a more direct sense of action.

Japan's new system of government looks like it is headed in the direction of a martial law, or some very militaristic type of government.

One thing that I thought of while reading was how the japanese army was becoming so stretched out across china, and this can only lead to disaster for them.

SolomonStubbs · Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 11:47 pm Post subject:

This reading really gave me the sense that the Japanese government/military were getting out of control and far away from the original intent of the Meiji Restoration. I mean, it seems to me like the Japanese military just became too dominant within the government so it started to give itself orders. The Emperor was supposedly had "supreme command" of the army/navy but as mentioned in the readings, the internal affairs of combat and strategy were up to the military leaders. I feel that Hardy's description of "an inevitable collapse of a poorly constructed constitutional monarchy" is a particularly fitting description of what was happening at the point to the government of Japan. This expansion into China confirms Japan's intent to colonize and become the 'Master of Asia,' as the reading described it, with disastrous consequences. I did a little extra research on the Rape of Nanking and I found this incident appalling and disturbing.

farrahhatesmath · Joined: 14 Feb 2011 Posts: 7

Agreeing with Anya, I am also starting to see this trend of "Power to the people" in Japan's government. However, I feel that although Japan's government eventually heads towards a more democratic direction, it is still at this point very unstable. You begin to see this trend of the Japanese demanding change where it is needed. Like how it mentioned in the reading that "Many Japanese demanded that the government take action to improve conditions." I feel as if with this typle of method of voicing change, is very inviting of riots and a government that is full of disorder.

hkwon2012 · Joined: 15 Feb 2011 Posts: 7

In my opinion, the Japanese leaders and officials especially military generals during the Showa restoration showed different loyalties from the Samurai’s loyalty. In other words, they rather served for Japan based on each different definition for “patriotism” than just carry out instructions from upper officials. As the reading says, military men could act on their own and get away with it without any specific expectation on their acts like bushido. As a result, the Showa Empire was run in disorder with assassination conspiracy. For instance, the young officers assassinated Chang Tso-lin, the warlord of Manchuria and Prime Minister Tanaka resigned because of his refusal to punish the men responsible for the assassination. In November, 1930, a young superpatriot shot Prime Minister Hamaguch. In February, 1932, members of a patriotic society assassinated a former finance minister who opposed the Manchurian action, and a few weeks later they killed the head of the Mitsui Corporation.

To me, it seems that the book called A General Outline for the Reconstruction of Japan written by Kita Ikki had a great influence on the political leaders. Was his thought on “reconstruction” ideal? If so, why?
(Please forgive my not posting earlier! I usually work late at night)

mharrison · Joined: 15 Feb 2011 Posts: 5

I agreed with Anya and Farrah; I also noticed a trend when it came to the people wanting power. It's been more present since the Meiji Restoration when the people were finally able to be a part of the government and the Emperor no longer had absolute power, but it seem like it got quieted a little bit as the peoples' dependancy on the government grew.

I was also a little bit confused about Hardy's post? I wasn't totally sure what you were trying to say. Sorry.

Willblum · Joined: 03 Jan 2011 Posts: 21

I agree with Hardy that the development of fascism in Japan seems, in retrospect, to have been an almost inevitable progression from the constitutional monarchy of the Meiji restoration period. Imbalances in government power like that given to the Emperor by the constitution tend to shift further away from an equilibrium as time progresses, I think. While there was some representation, the people's responsibility was mostly a sort of singular loyalty to the government, not to act as participants in a larger system. I would say that while in many ways the post-Meiji militarism resembled the pre-Meiji shogunate feudalism, it differed in the sense that the samurai had a responsibility to this nebulous "honor", or basically a responsibility to do what was right according to a set of intrinsic values, the post Meiji population had only the responsibility to follow orders.

Willblum · Joined: 03 Jan 2011 Posts: 21

I agree with Hardy that the development of fascism in Japan seems, in retrospect, to have been an almost inevitable progression from the constitutional monarchy of the Meiji restoration period. Imbalances in government power like that given to the Emperor by the constitution tend to shift further away from an equilibrium as time progresses, I think. While there was some representation, the people's responsibility was mostly a sort of singular loyalty to the government, not to act as participants in a larger system. I would say that while in many ways the post-Meiji militarism resembled the pre-Meiji shogunate feudalism, it differed in the sense that the samurai had a responsibility to this nebulous "honor", or basically a responsibility to do what was right according to a set of intrinsic values, the post Meiji population had only the responsibility to follow orders.

Suchan · Joined: 14 Feb 2011 Posts: 8

I agree with Anya's opinion in terms of where Japan is in our reading: Japan basically is in a verge of becoming a democratic nation from constitutional monarchy. In a way, it was diffifult to do so with all the military ambition that the Japan had, but evetually Japan suceeds to do so

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