Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 7:32 pm Post subject: Japanese National Pride
I believe that Japan didnt use Draconian measures to 'inculcate' national pride. Japan definitely used propaganda to promote national pride, but all their propaganda was in accordance with the constitution. I needed to look up what Draconian measures were, and the definition i found said that the Draco's laws were very harsh. The Japanese on the other hand didnt change their laws in order to instill national pride in their people.
While doing the reading, the Americans, British made fun of the Russians for lacking western technology, so how was Russia included in that group of Western powers?
Another question i had while doing the reading was what did the lower class Japanese people think of the Meiji reformation? How did they respond to the steps the Japanese government was taking to become more like the Western world?
I don't think there can be any question as to whether the methods employed by the government of Japan to instill national pride in its subjects were draconian. Books were banned, teacher were dismissed, and curricula were heavily regulated (sorry to respond so vociferously, Isaac). School, became little more than a shrine to the emperor and, as the emperor stood as a symbol for Japanese pride, heritage, and culture, the schools became shrines to the nation. I really have very little to say beyond this, save for this question, why is it that Japan moved towards such rabid nationalism during the Meiji period? One could easily imagine the uprising which displaced the shogun as being one centered on true representation of the people, not the rather pale democracy establish during the restoration. Again, I would love to read all of your (my dear classmates) responses, however I do have my own, somewhat piddling answer to the very question I posed only moments ago. This is, that the nationalism, the pharaonic emperor worship stemmed from the tradition of Bushido. Granted, Bushido applied only to the samurai class, but during the Tokugawa period I believe the peasantry and lower classes sought to emulate the behaviors of the noblemen. So, and I believe the reading made this point, one could see the new devotion to the emperor which is characteristic of Meiji Japan as a sort of Bushido, a code, to which the entire nation could hope to conform.
I would agree with both Hardy and Isaac. I am not really sure if methods were Draconian or not. The methods used to promote the Emperor, in my opinion, were not as harsh as some methods of implanting ideas have been historically. It turned the subjects somewhat into robots. It attempted to remove personality and turn the subjects into mindless followers. It removed, to some extent, personality. It removed what knowledge was available, and knowledge is power. I am still torn between the two, and probably have an unclear deffiniton of "Draconian methods". (despite research)
Ah, thanks for reminding me of that stuff hardy, i dont know how/why i forgot about that. Good call, in light of that, i take back what i said about the Japanese not using Draconian measures.
I now have a new question, did the Japanese government use draconian methods to primarily invoke nationalism? Or did they primarily use the strict laws to prohibit the growth of an opposing political view to theirs? and the nationalism that came of it was just a by-product.
I would agree with both Hardy and Isaac. I am not really sure if methods were Draconian or not. The methods used to promote the Emperor, in my opinion, were not as harsh as some methods of implanting ideas have been historically. It turned the subjects somewhat into robots. It attempted to remove personality and turn the subjects into mindless followers. It removed, to some extent, personality. It removed what knowledge was available, and knowledge is power. I am still torn between the two, and probably have an unclear deffiniton of "Draconian methods". (despite research)
I am also not sure as to whether the methods were draconian of not. However, I feel that the government definitely took great care in instilling nationalistic-like values into the Japanese people. Although slightly unrelated, I was more interested in the fact that in the reading about Japan trying to become "friendlier" with the US and England, they were willing to denounce their nationalistic ideals just to be on the same wavelength as the US and Europe. They tied themselves to more Anglo-Saxon roots, when they are clearly more related to the Chinese and the Koreans, with whom they had to disassociate themselves with in order to become like a western power. In order to be up there with the US and Europe, they had almost completely eliminated their nationalistic ideals.
Joined: 15 Feb 2011 Posts: 7 Location: United States of America
Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 11:28 pm Post subject:
Japan certainly used severe, some might say Draconian, measures to instill national pride in its people. The Meiji restoration was a period which marked a small transition towards a slightly more inclusive, democratic government with a constitution based upon western examples. By taking on this western idea of a constitutional republic Japan aimed to gain the respect and acknowledgement of other western countries. However, this move towards a greater representation of the public was, in my opinion, superficial. Only the wealthiest 1% of the population could vote and the imperial Diet was only in session for a quarter of the year. To discourage dissent during this time of transition, Japan took on some harsh measures to control its people, specifically in the fields of education. The goal of education became less about creating free-thinking, autonomous citizens, and more about instilling obedience and encouraging service to the nation and the emperor.
During the Meiji Restoration, Japan was doing all it could to distinguish itself from it's neighboring Asian countries and reach a level of social and economic success comparable to Britain and the west. If draconian measures were what it took, Japan was ready to enforce them. Japan's focus at the time was not on it's own people, but rather on the way the rest of the world viewed their country. Although it may seem slightly counter intuitive at first, Japan modified it's method of education to be a brainwashing system with a heavy focus of nationalistic values, giving the appearance of a patriotic society loyal to their government. In reality, nationalistic values were the only vales taught to Japanese people in schools, and most citizens didn't have the chance to expand their knowledge beyond this education. Japan was molding it's next generation of citizens into perfect fits for the society the government was quickly building up around them. In my opinion, manipulating your countries citizens is a notably draconian concept.
I too was interested in why the Japanese wanted to lean more towards Anglo-Saxon roots, rather than Chinese and Korean roots. One contributing factor could be the recent Opium Wars in China. Perhaps Japan wanted to make it clear to the rest of the world that they would follow in Europe/America's footstep and seize country after country, rather than be devastated by two wars in a short period of time?
I am also sort of unsure about whether or not these methods were totally Draconian. I mean, they're reminiscent at the very least, but I guess I'm not really sure how crazy severe these sorts of methods have to be to be Draconian. But yeah, I agree with Hardy; the censorship of ideas in Japan that did not match those of the Emperor and the government was pretty intense.
And Isaac, as far as creating nationalism vs. prohibiting opposition with a by-product of nationalism, I got the feeling it was a little bit of both? Like, the nationalism was being generated, and then people who disagreed were being silenced at the same time? That's sort of how it struck me, I guess.
I agree with Anya, Japan at that time period was only thinking about how to catch up with the Western powers. In order to achieve their goal as soon as possible, they needed 100% support from the people, and nationalism is one way to work it out. Japan certainly did use Draconian measure, but I don't think the people hold too much against it (or it's just I haven't seen any?)
A part in the Meiji Hapn and East Asia reading annoys me, Griffis said "the secret behind the success of the Japanese was the "white blood" that ran in their veins." Japan became the first Asian country to be recognize as equal to other Western powerful countries, but at the same time they lost their identity, which I think conflict with the idea of nationalism...or not?
The measures that Japan's leaders used to give the Japanese people a sense of pride do not seem to be draconian. They did not harshly punish those who would not go along with the national program. But their plans and their methods were authoritarian.
The Meiji Constitution gave the Japanese people certain legal rights, but it kept almost all the power in the hands of the emperor and his inner circle of advisors. Only a small minority of Japanese men could vote for members of the lower house of the legislature, which had to share legislative power with an upper house filled with nobles and members of the imperial family. This constitution was not democratic, but quite authoritarian.
The ruling class developed a national education system, which taught every Japanese child the value of loyalty to the emperor, as well as a set of orderly behaviors that would make the country peaceful and prosperous. This was a way of making the Japanese people proud of how they behaved, and what they could accomplish.
I agree that Japanese government used schools and the nation's education system to inculcate national pride in the Japanese people. The government did use draconian methods, restricting people from developing their own views, but I am not completely certain it was to an extreme. I agree with Ting Chun that the Japanese people did not significantly hold against the government's methods.
I found Farrah's point interesting . Maybe Japan tying themselves to the Anglo-Saxon roots is related to the Japanese way of preserving their dignity? I might be wrong, but I have learnt that the Japanese people value how the others view them more than how they view the others. Through associating themselves to the roots of the Western, Japan was expecting to win its pride and dignity.
the japanese government definitely employed some harsh laws that were a big adjustment to the way the government had been before the meiji constitution.
i think that the methods that the japanese government used to structure their education systems around patriotism and loyalty were draconian. they banned books that used vocabulary that was considered politiaclly threatening, the emperor became an iconic figure in the schools that looked down upon ever class from a portrait on the wall.
i think that the difference between what education was like for the parents compared to the education of their children was a very extreme difference. someone brought this up in class, what were the parents thinking about this system? were they against it? did they think it was a good idea? if the older generations were not taught these important values of dedication to the government and patriotism in their schools, where did they learn them?
Japan had definitely used some draconian measures to make people proud of their naiton. As already been said, a lot of rights as a citizen such as freedom of speech was forbidden in order to prevent any deviative thoughts agianst the one that the bureaucrats wanted people to believe in. I would say that these draconian measures were unusually effective, because despite the fact that people were educated and exposed to some literacy and numeracy, Japan had suceeded to manipulate its people to be obedient and unrebelling against the class structure, which eventually enabled Japan to engage in wars against one of the major power, Russia, by using collectivism established by this popular sentiment of obdience and simplicity.
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. Maybe Japan tying themselves to the Anglo-Saxon roots is related to the Japanese way of preserving their dignity? I might be wrong, but I have learnt that the Japanese people value how the others view them more than how they view the others. Through associating themselves to the roots of the Western, Japan was expecting to win its pride and dignity.
