The Qing Dynasty lasted approximately for 300 years, starting from 1616 in Manchuria and until Xihai Revolution in 1912. 300 years of Qing's history is able to teach us lesson that a large nation like China can be kept isolated and ruled by few people in power, but eventually it would be ended with revolution caused by working class. The social hierarchy system of China was too narrow. The scholars had the highest status, peasants had second, then the artisans had third, and the merchants had the last. In spite the level distribution, only scholars, the highest in the pyramid, enjoyed the absolute power over the others. This unjust level system was protected by "closed door" policy that the government installed, but obviously as time goes by the closed door would start to crack and would show little gap. That little gap would accommodate foreign influence, even if it is unwanted, and people would awake eventually. That is how the boxer rebellion and the Xinhai Revolution occurred and overthrew Qing.
The closed door policy was successful in physically defining, separating and enclosing the nation from the west; however it contributed to the class devision, which, along with ethnic devision, did not create cohesion within the Qing Dynasty's COMMUNITY. The founding of this Dynasty was cohesive in that it merged Chinese and Manchu government and ideology, however social hierarchy dominated Qing society. Manchus had more influence in the government, in addition to many other benefits. There was metaphorical, as well as sometimes physical (like in Manchuria), separation in the society..
HOWEVER:
One reading referred to local hierarchies as ".. relationships based on authority." I found this interesting because it highlights the interactions between each level of authority. The readings said that those with much authority, power and education (the gentry for example) sought to appease those at the "bottom of the food chain" (the merchants). While those at the bottom depended on those at the top.
While individuals were not seen as equal nor were they unified on a personal level, the interactions between each level of social hierarchy were aligned and complimented one another well. Therefore, I would agree that there was some form of cohesion during the Qing Dynasty.
I would say the ethnic and class divison, as well as the 'closed door policy' did not contribute to a cohesive Qing at all.
It is noticable in the reading that Qing was not exaclty the country where the majority ruled the minority; Manchus rules over Han Chinese, who outnumbered Manchus in population. Thus there were discrepancies over the way people were trated in spite of the law that was based on Confucius teaching. Ethnic division brought much anger within the society, and this is the reason why, as Jaehyouk mentioned, so many rebellions were imminent all throughout the history of Qing Dynasty.
Class division during Qing Dynasty was just an extension of ethnic divison, where Manchus were treated better than Chinese in every ways. Even more, class division based on the occupation did not help bringing people together in Qing because people were resentful about the injustices that were inflicted on them; for example, only higher-ranked 'gentries' were able to contact the local official directly to request any kind of governmental auxiliary.
Closed door policy did not work too well at all. Although it seemed like a cogent system, it was actually a corrupt market in Canton, which catalyzed the rise of merchants from the West who "penetrated the Chinese market in spite of the restrictions." All in all, closed door policy failed because in the end it did not protect people, eventually bringing a terrible economic breakdown which ends Qing Dynasty for good.
Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 8:26 pm Post subject: reply
When people think of China many think of a all Chinese country, but the truth is, that there are over 54 different ethnic groups all over China, and mainly in the southern and western areas.
One of the bigger ethnic groups are the Manchurian, they ruled the Qing dynasty and the Mongolians ruled the Yuan dynasty. Although the majority of the population were Han, but most of the power laid in the hands of the Manchurian population during the Qing dynasty.
Class separation was imminent and was a part of everyday life. The "CLose-door policy" worked to keep western influences and trade under control and limited the trading industry greatly. Its goal was to provide a cohesion effect on the country, but instead not only not helping, but also ruined the economy of the country greatly by limited trading quantities.
I agree with Madi, that the definitive class structure did not help create a cohesive community, but I do think that it in a way does create a cohesive nation. Even if the some of the social placements are unfair and unjust (at least I personally think that some of them are), a clear social structure contributes to clear cultural vision, something that was clearly prevalent among the Manchu-Qing Dynasty. The ‘closed door policy’ also reinforces this valued social setup, and indicates that it is certainly not open for debate, especially in regards to foreign influence.
I found it very interesting at how dominant in society the gentry were set up to be. And how opposite this is (for the most part) to the way we have it now in modern day America. Scholars, while still the key holders of knowledge, are NOT for the most part the holders of power, land, riches, and esteem from the public. The roles are reversed, and now the once lowly merchants have become the dominating power in American culture. While I am inclined to say that the Manchu-Qing Dynasty had it right, I realize that for the most part I largely disagree with their social hierarchy.
Joined: 04 Jan 2012 Posts: 6 Location: Deadfield, MA
Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 8:35 pm Post subject:
I agree with Madi on the first part that she said about the separation. The closed door policy really helped China and in order for it to grow it had to separate from all Western influence. This way it would be able to establish it's own control while at the same time being able to expand. I also agree with what she said about the dynasty merger. More Manchurian influence in the government doesn't really show complete cohesion in society. _________________ "If you're not violating the honor code at BYU, it's not worth doing"- Daniel Tosh
i also have to say that the closed door policy had very little to no effect on the cohesiveness of the county. i think that all the closed door policy did for the country was keep out major influence of foreign powers on china which probably helped reduce the amount of pressure on the caste like system that was in place. i also think that you can look at modern china as an example of the class system where the scholars are the communist officials the peasantry is still made up of peasants and the entrapanuers are still seen as a lower caste of society because they dont follow the structure of the communist or dynastic government as strictly. ethnically i dont think the closed door policy helped or hurt at all because an influx of western traders would not have had as great an impact as the occupation of the Manchus as it would not have reached as far throughout the empire.
Although the class divisions were in place in previous dynasties it could be argued that they helped create cohesiveness in the Qing Dynasty. The classes made everyone fit into their own place. In one of the readings it said “every individual fitted snugly into an appointed place.” The social hierarchy of the groups meant that every person played their own role in the larger goal. Having the predetermined roles would have helped the cohesiveness of the society even thought it is not special to the Qing dynasty. The class divides prevented people from moving from their classes.
The closed-door policy also helped because it limited the interaction with the western world so it helped to keep people in their social classes. Even thought the closed-door policy failed, it would have slowed down movement of information about the western world. This information might have helped weaken the class system. The nation with the classes divided was not united, but it did function as a system. Because it was able to properly function I have to say that it was cohesive and it the dynasty gained power.
The closed door policy helped the Qing Dynasty avoid influence from the West, which helped to create a cohesive nation because the people living during this dynasty saw the west as a threat to their culture and society. However, the hierarchy within the class system eliminated this cohesiveness. When a group of people such as the merchants can buy Confucian degrees without working for them, it creates a society where money can give you economic power and many other privileges while other suffer. I found it interesting that the peasants were put before the artisans. Lastly, I don't think it was fair that the Manchus was fed free of charge. If the Qing Dynasty was looking to create cohesion, they did a bad job at showing it.
The division between the Manchus and the Chinese (like the Hans) only brought humiliation and "anti-Manchu national feeling." The privileges given to Manchus led the Chinese to view with antagonism, and I am curious to know if the growing of anti-Manchu feeling led to any rebels in the future. Although it gained social order and gave Manchus complete control, in a way bringing the nation together under the Manchu rule, their forced demand of submission could not bring together the minds of the people.
Similarly the class distinction and 'closed door policy' established a certain control over the country and gave a rule to follow.
Yet the class distinctions, placing the scholars on the top and giving them privileges over peasants, artisans, and merchants, continued for a long history without going through readjustments, may have led to the inadequate government that the rest of the world "derided", the big nation constantly facing defeat.
The closed-door policy gave power to the Hong merchants having the monopoly on foreign trade, gave opportunities to a small number of the merchants. It soon lost power as the West "penetrated" the Chinese market.
Overall, for the Qing rulers the ethnic and the class division and 'closed-door policy' did give them more control and helped out in making a cohesive nation, making thing easier for them to rule and hold authority. It secluded the country from foreign influence and thus secured the emperor's power, and regained social order.
Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 11:16 pm Post subject: Closed door policy
I think class division, ethnic division, and the closed-door policy did help the cohesion of the Qing. Although the society discriminated against the Han Chinese, it is important for us to keep in mind that this is a dynastic society, not a democracy. class division and ethnic division was something very common throughout the history of China. Same type of ethnic division was performed in Yuan and Ming dynasty.
The closed door policy was very effective in keeping the order within the empire in my opinion. Western Europeans brought wealth, but also brought controversial ideas like Christianity. It was probably the best option Chinese could have taken in order to keep the peace within the dynasty (especially as the Qing was already an empire ruled by the powerful minority.) and remain Manchurian rule over the Han rather than accepting another set of foreigners into the mighty empire.
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