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abhatia · Joined: 26 Jan 2011 Posts: 37

Are we deceived in thinking that the West opened China to trade?

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Ikrieger2012 · Joined: 03 Jan 2012 Posts: 18

It says in the book, “From ancient times, China has always traded with the outside world.” So it is safe to assume that the West literally opened up China to trade, however it was the western countries that made China a serious trading powerhouse--a massive exporter of teas and textiles. The forming of companies such as both the Dutch and British East India Trading Company founded in the 17th century created trade routes with China on a largely organized scale, thanks to the fact that the current emperor of China had opened the Chinese coast free to trade with foreign countries as of 1684. On page 6 though, it says that there was a policy from the 18th century to the mid 19th century, China restricted trade with western countries unless the foreign goods were labeled as “tributes” to the Emperor. After 1842 this policy was dropped, and that again opened the door to a massive stream of trading ships from the powerful European countries. In this sense, I do think that the west definitely opened China up to trading, because without the large European and Indian trading companies, and advancements in shipbuilding (clippers & steamships), China may have held on to its reluctance to trade with foreigners.

meisler2013 · Joined: 04 Jan 2012 Posts: 6

I was going to use the same quote as Isaiah (“From ancient times, China has always traded with the outside world.”), and i agree with him, I think that the west greatly increased China opportunities for trade.

Throughout the reading I asked myself if, in profitable trade supply and demand are equally important? Where the author gives statistics on British imports to Canton and exports from Canton (p.11-12), the exports from Canton outnumber the imports to Canton from the west, by millions of dollars. It is my opinion that supply and demand, as well as imports and exports are equally as important in profitable tread. Therefore, the desires of the westerners to have eastern goods could have impacted the west as the east.

jaehyouk · Joined: 19 Oct 2010 Posts: 6

The tradition of trading can be rooted as ancient as the history of the silk road. Although china was the one who opened up the first long-distance trading form called the "silk road," west region deserves to be called as the father of the modern form sino-western trading model. However, western region is not realizing a crucial idea behind this ideal trading scenery. The oriental chinese luxury item such as tea, porcelain, and silk, has always been an ideal luxury for showing one's economic state and power. As the result of European's longing for those luxuries, most of silvers that were mined from new world was exchanged with chinese goods. Because of sans pareil explosion in their wealth, chinese enjoyed the power of great capital within the country. The result is as shown. The economists guessed that chinese economy would surpass America's economy by 2027, but America's current economic recession shortened the time for china. Western might be the ones who opened up the new system and the idea of sino-western trade, but obviously they are not the ones who are taking the advantage of the trade.

dsachs2013 · Joined: 04 Jan 2012 Posts: 6

I do not believe that the western world opened trade in China. It allowed the trade to grow from a trickle into a thriving industry. The trade was mainly the textiles and tea that china could produce, and the western world wanted. The west had metals like gold and silver to trade with. The west increased the trade in China and it was not done solely by the Chinese. The reason the west played a large role is the trading companies were western companies. The East India Company started to trade in China after it had been established and been functioning for years. It was this decision to trade with China that opened it, instead of the small trade organizations that had existed for years. In addition, to the large companies of the western world opening trade, the inventions like steamboats also allowed the markets to be profitable. The higher speed and lower draft of these boats made trade more practical. The steamboat, an invention of the western world, allowed for the growth of trade in China.

Eric von Hippel · Joined: 19 Oct 2010 Posts: 23

I don't think that it is possible to say that western powers opened china to trade because china has a very long history of trade and indirect trade with the west. the silk road connected china to the middle east and the heart of the holy Roman empire and later the Turks. i think that the west did have a large impact on how china's policies towards foreign trade developed because of exploitation for colonial gains and national interests but i think it is impossible to say they opened china

Alex Bair · Joined: 04 Jan 2012 Posts: 6 Location: Deadfield, MA

I agree with Eric. China had established connections in the past before and the West didn't completely opened China to trade. The Silk Road was a major part of China's trading. It says that European explorers were seeking out China and the East for the spices. The tea industry was also a huge help to China especially because of it's level of prestige in England. So there's the Western trade openings, but in all fairness, China started long before these connections so you can't say it was all the west
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mkim · Joined: 14 Feb 2011 Posts: 14

I agree with those who do not believe that the West opened China to join the foreign trade. Long before the western countries visited China, the country "had always traded with the outside world" through the silk routes to Middle East and Europe since the first century. Even when the larger trade between the West and China began, there was the Canton trade system that regulated the trade and made rules that restricted the merchants. All trades had to go through the Emperor, although the foreign merchants themselves could not penetrate into the mainlands of China, until the system fell with China's loss in Opium War in 1842.
Also, the Canton system made Western countries to create a romanticized image of China and the trades. The export art, which will be passed on the later generations, depicted the images of trading as how the foreign traders wanted to be portrayed. Such visual records and the luxuries brought to the West from China could have created a misleading images of the foreign commerce. Yet it is true that through British East India Company and the other western companies including the private traders China's foreign trade market expanded greatly, and opened up for the western merchants.
Agreeing to what Jaehyouk mentioned, the Hong merchants, who were the only merchants approved by the Chinese court with the privilege to trade with the Westerners, gained a significant amount of wealth through their commerce with the West, showing that the trade benefited the Chinese merchants in a larger scale.

fxin · Joined: 17 Feb 2011 Posts: 10

I believe that the West has greatly helped China to open up trade and develop progressively towards a more financially stable stage. Although the main trading ports are controlled by big companies such as the British East India company and the Dutch VOC, still many adventurous merchants and freelancers are exploiting this route as a way to a better life. On page 13 " The Americans tried to enter the China trade even under British colonial rule, but the British, calling them pirates, tried to exclude them from the monopoly." Although the trade may seem like a huge opportunity to many corruption and smuggling was also a big part of the trade especially with the big corporations like The British East India Company. In many ways the West also shaped the potential of trade in China and definitely helped to open up.

JasonJeong · Joined: 20 Oct 2011 Posts: 13

I do not think we are deceived to think that the West forced Qing to open its gates. West, after the invention of clippers and steam boats has definitely used its power to dominate Qing. While reading the article, I could not stop thinking about what European countries really possessed to offer to trade with Qing. I felt like the Europeans "exported" the goods they exploited from India, South America, and other colonies in exchange for Chinese goods.

Drug trafficking is also a reason that led me to believe that the West has forced its way into China. Once the Qing people experienced Opium, there would have been no way for Chinese to have actually fair trade with the English. Plus, when the Qing government raised their concerns about opium, English responded with firearms.

kandice simmons · Joined: 15 Nov 2010 Posts: 21

I don't believe that the West opened China to trade. However, I believe the West played a major role as to why China was viewed as a powerhouse and why it continues to be looked at as a powerhouse. China provided the West with land, silk, and tea while the West gave China Opium and other goods they were able to find. When the reading mentioned that the West often carried guns on their ships it made me question the West's true intentions behind trading with China.

shwang2012 · Joined: 05 Jan 2012 Posts: 6

My apologies, first of all, for posting at 5 a.m. in the morning: Jetlag.
Anyhow, I think that, as many of you already said, there is not much of a stretch in saying that the West opened up the modern system of trading that is happening nowadays. However, the fact that China had been interacting with its nearby countries cannot be disregarded.
As we saw in the reading, before the Opium War, western countries could only contact with Chinese government via merchants only; no government official was directly involved in economic affairs with the West. This is because China only thought of this interaction was a "tribute" to China.
Because China historically liked having nearby countries in a tribunal realtionship, same was done for the mechants who supposedly represented their own countries. (although it really wasn't the case for the Americans)
So the West probably deserves credit for opening up the trading system where China could no longer assert its nominal power over its trading partners. But it is not a correct assumption to make that China never traded with other countries ever before the influx of merchants from the West in the era of Imperialism.

efitzpatrick · Joined: 02 Nov 2011 Posts: 7 Location: United States

China originally opened to trade for the reason any country would, to aid the economy. While the rest of the world was open to international trade, china was still closed. When it opened for trade, many companies looked at the country as a huge opportunity and immediately decided to start building product there because there were a lot of possible workers, and they all were willing to work for a much lower cost. I believe that China decided to open for trade, but the rest of the world started using this opportunity to it’s advantage and profit as much as possible from it. So in short, china opened the door, but the west flooded it.

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